MCFCforum.com talks exclusively with Gary James

What Gary James doesn't know about Manchester City, you can bet he will unearth it eventually. Penning many books on the Blues, he is always researching his next tome, but just recently, he set some time aside to talk to us ... 

MCFCforum.com: How much access do you get at Manchester City? Has this improved or gotten worse since the takeover?

Gary James: It's varied over the years. I've been researching and writing "The Journey: Rebuilding Manchester City" and so have interviewed all the key figures over the last two years or so. I also help them with lots of stuff about the Club's history etc.


MCFCforum.com: What ever happened to West Gorton Athletic? And what's your educated guess of the reasoning for the Maltese cross on the kits of 1884?

Gary James: I tend to think that the Maltese cross either has a direct link with St. Mark's church (though not found any evidence yet) or has some link to the Ashbury's lodge of the Masons because the guy who presented the kit - William Beastow - was a key figure in the Masons. However, I don't believe City's use of blue and white is directly linked to the Masons at all. That appears to be an urban myth because none of the material from the early years makes that connection. The first mentions come in the late 60s, also the Sidney Rose piece that appeared in the Masonic Quarterly magazine talking about why City wear blue didn't actually have any evidence, but did contain a few errors on when the kit was first worn etc.
It's always difficult when people repeat stories passed down through the generations because often these get misconstrued, exaggerated and so on. I reckon that talk of the Masonic links is fair when referring to William Beastow and his influence in the mid-1880s, but not in the 1890s and onwards when Blue became the main colour.
West Gorton Athletic - there are still a few conflicting stories out there about the mergers etc. from the 1880s. I'm hoping to write up the facts for the next "Big Book Of City" – it actually looks as if the side that ‘our’ Gorton side merged with was known as Belle Vue Rangers not West Gorton Athletic. There were links between West Gorton FC (the team evolved out of St. Mark’s) and Belle Vue Rangers before 1883-1884 and some players had appeared for both sides. After 1883, players and some figures associated with Belle Vue Rangers played for West Gorton.
In 1884 it looks like the two clubs then split again, with the former St. Mark's players (and some of the better former Belle Vue players) relaunching the Club as Gorton AFC, while those who left created West Gorton Athletic and that side played against ‘our’ Gorton side in 1887. Evidence suggests West Gorton Athletic later changed their name to West Gorton Hibernian.


MCFCforum.com: Aside from the ground sharing after WWII, what other cooperation has existed between City and United? How much of the fans' rivalry truly extends to the boardrooms? Were City and United ever close to an Inter-AC Milan partnership? When did the rivalry begin and what brought it about?

Gary James: Lots of links over the years - players, fans, directors and more. From the beginning the two sides were very close - and so were the fans. Things only changed in the 60s really. Prior to that the two sides worked together often. I will say that the Blues have tended to give the Reds more support over the years - player transfers after the Illegal Payments scandal; support around the Manchester Central furore; ground share; helping Busby; floodlight ground use; post-Munich support ... and so on. In the 60s though, a City director suggested the two clubs merge because Manchester wasn't big enough for two clubs! The rivalry was always at a friendly banter level until the general change in football supporter behaviour in the 60s. Its intensity has grown for a number of reasons. I try to cover most of this in "Manchester A Football History."


MCFCforum.com: In your opinion, which players from the 1969 Cup winning team would have made the 2011 Cup winning team?

Gary James: Difficult to say because football is already such a different game from back then. I'd have to say that people like Alan Oakes are underrated today. He was consistent throughout the 60s and early 70s. Of course, Colin Bell, Neil Young, Mike Summerbee, Franny Lee, and Mike Doyle should be challenging for places, but who would they replace?


MCFCforum.com: Pick your City all-time XI.

Gary James: Ah ... very difficult. I might come back to this because we all tend to think about players who brought success and that can often be because of the balance of the entire team, not individuals. So would it work if, for example, Mike Summerbee performed in the same team as Carlos Tevez? Actually, that probably would, but I find it difficult creating an all-time XI.


MCFCforum.com: In your estimation, what has been the biggest match in City's long history?

Gary James: Post war it has to be the 1999 play-off, because that ensured we survived as a club - who knows how we'd have coped had we not been promoted. Also, the new stadium would probably not have been built to the level it was (I've talked about this often - the plans were finalised and signed after promotion and a smaller stadium would probably have been built for the Games). So its significance remains today. Without 1999 City and Manchester would not be in the position we are today.
Ultimately, the play-off final was the catalyst for everything that has subsequently happened to City and was also of immense significance to the development of Manchester (and arguably it helped the Commonwealth Games pave the way for the London Olympics). It wasn’t simply a game that saw a team promoted.


MCFCforum.com: In the late 90's, we clawed our way back to the Premiership, but how close were we to going bankrupt and out of business? Would we have done, had Horlock, and then Dickov, not scored?

Gary James: It’s hard to tell and, if sources are correct, then we came close to going into administration only a few years ago as well. It’s a great surprise really how we survived at times really, but it is also absolutely ridiculous that the Club ever came close to financial ruin. In 1981 we were able to compete with any side but two years later we were skint. Exceptionally poor planning there, and something that ultimately had a bearing on everything else that followed until the arrival of Sheikh Mansour.


MCFCforum.com: Just how important was Andy Morrison to the club?

Gary James: I got into an argument once with a senior City official on the attendance of players at supporter meetings. At the time (about 2005) I was saying that player attendance at supporter meetings was essential because it helped generate support, rewarded fans, and ensured players got a feeling for what the Club was all about. The guy I argued with said something along the lines of “Robbie Fowler can’t be expected to go to a smokey pub in Droylsden. That’s alright for Andy Morrison, but these are real stars.” That set me off on a bit of a rant – Fowler may have had major success during his career but Andy Morrison was a much greater star and important player to City fans than Fowler could ever hope to be. Morrison was a cult hero and deserved the adulation, but the City senior figure just didn’t get it.
No disrespect to Fowler, but Morrison will always have a place in City’s hearts alongside Dickov, Goater and dozens of others who gave everything for the Blue cause.


MCFCforum.com: Tommy Johnson - what the hell were the board thinking when they sold him? Have there been any other notable blunders in the Boardroom's history which led to similar fan revolts?

Gary James: Johnson was sold to Everton in 1930 against his and the fans’ wishes. He was our biggest star and they were one of our biggest rivals. Fans boycotted – crowds dropped by around 8000 – and it was the first time, as far as we can tell, when the Club sold a major star against fans wishes. When Denis Law was sold in 1960 fans were far from happy but crowds only dropped by about 4,000, nevertheless that was a short-sighted move. Then, of course, the sale of Trevor Francis saw another short-sighted move. City may have been overdrawn but Francis could have helped us to real success – again, support dropped by around 8,000.


MCFCforum.com: What exactly was the gypsy curse all about? How did they remove it?

Gary James: According to legend, a traveller’s camp was cleared from the site in 1922 when they started building Maine Road. The leader of the group is alleged to have threatened the people clearing the site and claimed that “no good will ever come to anyone who resides here.” This ‘Gypsy Curse’, as it became known, stayed with the Club for over 75 years but, interestingly, it was hardly ever referred to when City were finding great success It was only when things went wrong that people mentioned it.
Some have argued that winning the League (1937 & 1968), or the ECWC in 1970, proves that the curse never existed, but others say ‘ah, but just think what City would have won had there not been a curse? 1969 might have seen them win the European Cup’ and so on.
By the late 90s City were in a desperate state and the Club was contacted by a group of travellers who claimed to be descended from the original Maine Road inhabitants. They offered to lift the curse by having 4 lucky horseshoes blessed in some way and placed at the ground. Whether it was coincidence or not is open to debate, but the horse shoes arrival came at the same time as the 1998-99 season transformed from one of struggle to one heading for glory.
The full story is in my book “Farewell To Maine Road” and an image of the horseshoes can be seen here.


MCFCforum.com: Which player in City's history do you think has shaped the club most? Is there anyone who you would say "He made City who we are"?

Gary James: The great thing about City is that the Club is bigger than any individual. There isn’t one player or manager who people can point to and say ‘he made our club’. Having said that there are people who need to be remembered. These include Lawrence Furniss. He was a member of the team in the 1880s who went on to manage the club, be a director, have two spells as Chairman and became the first Life President of MCFC. He died in the early 40s after almost 60 years involvement. He was also perhaps the main figure behind City’s move to Maine Road and some fans suggested the stadium should have been named after him (it’s believed he turned this down saying something along the lines of ‘no man is bigger than the club’).
Another figure was Walter Chew – a 15 year old playing in the Club’s first known game who also went on to be a key figure behind the scenes for many years. Once referred to as the father of the club, Chew remained a regular attendee until his death in the late 40s.
Then of course, there is the long term continuity provided by the Alexander family – from 1894 through to the arrival of Swales they were significant contributors all the way through.


MCFCforum.com: When writing about City, how do you step back and take a neutral stance on events that you write about? How do you remain subjective instead of just putting your own opinions of the history of our club forward as the truth?

Gary James: It’s very difficult, but I do have to be subjective. Hopefully, when people read my books they realise that I’ve tried to tell the facts, interpret them fairly and not push my own interpretation. In conversation or on forums etc. I may offer my own view, but in the books I try to keep my own personal feelings off the page. This is also one of the reasons why I’ve constantly tried not to get too involved or aligned with any one in control. I inevitably try to talk with them and will offer my own opinions, but I’m more interested in listening to their stories and views. Maybe because of this I’ve missed out in some ways but I have, hopefully, retained my impartiality. That’s always important to me.
In 1993 as a fan I was firmly against the reign of Peter Swales and felt it should come to an end, and I spoke against him at the AGM but as a writer I wanted to understand both sides. Once Swales resigned I contacted him and asked him for his opinion. I was genuinely interested in his side of the story and wanted to make sure I understood so that it could help shape my future writing on the Club. In the end I did the last in-depth interview with him and I think we shared a mutual respect even if, as fans, we held different views.


MCFCforum.com: What will be the title of the book you write in 10 years’ time, documenting our ascent to the summit of European football?

Gary James: Hopefully, it will simply be an updated version of “Manchester The Greatest City” – when I picked the title in 1997 I considered all aspects of City’s history and thought that the title summed it up nicely. In ten years I reckon it’ll still be true. The chapters should be entertaining though – “Bring On The Champions” perhaps, “England’s Most Successful European Side” possibly … who knows?
I reckon that in ten years’ time, UEFA and others will see City as a model for how football clubs should be run. Today everybody focuses on City’s huge spending, but when they see what’s happening with the Academy and other facilities, plus the plans of City’s leaders then they’ll see that there’s a lot more to City than buying players. The Blues are playing catch up at the moment, hence the spending, but once the behind the scenes plans come to fruition then they’ll see that City are doing much, much more. It’ll be the behind the scenes developments and the infrastructure improvements that make City a real success – and for them to enjoy prolonged success.
I have been playing around with a few ideas for titles recently and feel that “The Journey: Rebuilding Manchester City” will be fairly appropriate for what we’re going through now. That book has been delayed a little and with events constantly on the change at City I truly don’t know when the time will be right to bring it out. I’ll be updating my Facebook page with news when available.

A huge thank you to Gary, for taking time out of his tremendously busy day to talk to us. 

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